Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Charlotte Encombe on January 7, 2010 at 11:02am

Sounds good in principle, but they are planning to get the majority of the fuel from overseas, if necessary by road..
see page 21 of the Leith Renewable energy Plant scoping document)

http://www.forthenergy.co.uk/pdf/LEITHS~1.PDF

Permalink Reply by Rob Thomson on January 7, 2010 at 11:59am

It would be great to see Edinburgh generate it's own power in a very low carbon way such as this. But to put this monster (65metre high building with 100m high tower) between the city (residents are only 200metres away) and the seaside seems to be blighting the whole area.

There are also railway lines a few hundred metres away. The plant needs 1.3 million tonnes of woodchip every year. If 70% arrives by ship then that leaves nearly 400thousand tonnes to arrive by lorry. How much can one lorry carry - how many trips is this?

Section 3.3.1 on page 14 seems to be about power generation but the paragraph is unreadably unclear and needs clarification.

Permalink Reply by Ally Tibbitt on January 7, 2010 at 3:38pm

Thinking about it, it does seem that there's lot's and lot's of questions!

It does seem absolutely massive. Also, it seems to completed ignore the previously agreed Outline Planning Application and Masterplan for the redevelopment of Leith Docks. The place where they propose to build the plant is on land that is currently earmarked for residential use. Also, if it is built there, it would seem to preclude much other residential building on the bit of the docks between the Imperial Dock and the Sea - as it seems as though the power plant will totally block access to that whole area Westwards.

I've asked Planning Aid Scotland for advice on what exactly this means... does it mean Forth Ports have to submit a new Outline Planning Application for the whole docks? Or can the City of Edinburgh Council just agree to allow this as a 'deviation' from the plan - albeit a fairly massive deviation.

Also, there were two much smaller areas in the Edinburgh Harbour Planning Application that were earmarked as Energy Centres. Are we to assume these are not to go ahead either?

So, on the plus side - renewable energy is good, jobs are good, CHP is good.
But on the down side - it's too big, it's in the wrong place, and it raises lots of questions about the implications for the redevelopment of the docks.

Permalink Reply by Chas Booth on January 11, 2010 at 9:23am

I don't think the size is a problem - in fact it's a good thing: if we're going to create massive amounts of renewable heat and electricity for the surrounding community, we need to ensure the power plant is up to the job. Besides, visibility is overstated as an issue: I can see the flour mill from just about every room in my house - does that mean I want it demolished?

Same goes for proximity: the closer to the surrounding community the better, since this minimises heat losses in transmission. Indeed, part of the trouble with most people's wasteful attitude to energy is because in the UK we've traditionally had massive remote power stations: out of sight, out of mind. A number of studies have shown that people's attitude to wasting energy improves if the power is generated closer to home.

I do agree that we need to look at how the biomass is transported, however. I suggest we specify that the remaining 30% must arrive by rail - this probably couldn't be done practically, but it's a reasonable opening gambit.

In general though, this looks like a pretty significant step towards a low-carbon Leith, and is therefore something we should support - albeit with comments about some of the details.

Permalink Reply by Charlotte Encombe on January 11, 2010 at 9:29pm

A swift google provided me with the information that the largest articulated lorries currently allowed on UK roads can take up to 44 tones of goods, so that would mean around 10,000 lorry loads.

Rob Thomson said:

It would be great to see Edinburgh generate it's own power in a very low carbon way such as this. But to put this monster (65metre high building with 100m high tower) between the city (residents are only 200metres away) and the seaside seems to be blighting the whole area.

There are also railway lines a few hundred metres away. The plant needs 1.3 million tonnes of woodchip every year. If 70% arrives by ship then that leaves nearly 400thousand tonnes to arrive by lorry. How much can one lorry carry - how many trips is this?

Section 3.3.1 on page 14 seems to be about power generation but the paragraph is unreadably unclear and needs clarification.

Permalink Reply by Greener Leith on January 12, 2010 at 8:26pm

The Evening News picked up this proposal from our blog post. Don't like the article, as they lifted only the negative comments and ignored the positive bits. The really went to town on the size of the chimney stack, with a totally ridiculous graphic.

It is somewhat irksome when they lift selective quotes from the blog without speaking to anyone from Greener Leith. Still debate is good!

Btw - If anyone would like to see an explanation of how Biomass/CHP plants can work in practice check out this video from Greenpeace. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klooRS-Jjyo

Permalink Reply by Ally Tibbitt on January 19, 2010 at 2:31pm

A few more points to consider in all this.

Firstly, it would seem that it is the Scottish Government that decides on any planning application from Forth Energy, as the proposal will be submitted under the Electricity Act. Here's what Planning Aid Scotland have advised us:

In terms of the Electricity Act 1989 it specifies that the consent of
Scottish Ministers is required for the construction, operation and
extension of power stations with an installed capacity in excess of 50
megawatts, or in the case of hydro and marine developments 1 megawatt
and for most overhead power lines. Power station developments that
fall below these thresholds are considered under the planning system.

The following link may be helpful

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1990/Uksi_19900455_en_1.htm

So, that makes things more interesting.

Secondly, we had a bit of a discussion about it at last nights Leith Links Community Council meeting. It became clear that Forth Ports will need to answer some pretty probing questions about the implications for the rest of the docks regeneration if this proposal does get the go-ahead in its present form. Key amongst them:

How many residential units does Forth Ports envisage building on the docks now? It was proposed to build about 15,000, but currently there's only 'live' applications for about 3,000, contained in the first two 'villages' around Ocean Terminal.

If that 15,000 figure is cut drastically, it will have huge implications for all sorts of things - e.g. For example, the long- term business case for the Tram, and the property/land values in sites in and around the docks.

Another issue, that some may consider more trivial, is that the grain store, that is currently on the site, is apparently a B-listed building.

From the people I've spoken to, it would seem the general mood is supportive in principle of Biomass district heating systems, but the site is problematic and so is the scale of the proposed development.

Permalink Reply by Ally Tibbitt on February 9, 2010 at 4:34pm

Here is a scan of the Forth Ports consultation documents that will be used in the display at Ocean Terminal. Probably best viewed in 'Full Screen mode' as they were scanned from A3 pages.

Forth Energy Leith Display Boards

View more documents from Greener Leith.

There was also another article in the Evening News today about our last blog post. You can read that here:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Power-plant-goes-again...

Permalink Reply by Charlotte Encombe on February 10, 2010 at 5:33pm

If you want to find out more about the ins and outs of biomass, this is a really interesting link to a website that takes a close look at how much biomass will be needed to power all the newly planned biomass generators and what percentage the UK will manage to grow:

http://www.forestenergymonitor.com/current_issue/free/UK_biomass_el...

Permalink Reply by Greener Leith on February 22, 2010 at 5:47pm

Biomass on the front page of the Evening News today. Friends of the Earth Scotland have something to say about it now too!

Permalink Reply by Greener Leith on March 12, 2010 at 4:27pm

Dear all,

Forth Energy have revised their site plan. You can see blog post about it here:

http://www.greenerleith.org/greener-leith-news/2010/3/12/biomass-pl...

Permalink Reply by Charlotte Encombe on March 12, 2010 at 4:54pm

To those folk who are busy commenting on the Environmental impact Assessment Scoping Report of the Forth Ports biomass power plant, I wanted to bring to your attention a recently launched initiative that aims to reduce Glasgow’s CO2 emissions by 30% by 2020, Sustainable Glasgow.

According to it 'Sustainable Glasgow is a pioneering partnership between the University of Strathclyde; Glasgow City Council; Scottish Power; Scottish and Southern Energy; and Scottish Enterprise. A wide range of additional key stakeholders are joining the partnership to help make delivering a sustainable city a reality.'

Their target is to reduce CO2’s of Glasgow by 30% in the next 10 years, which could possibly be a more sustainable alternative for energy production for Edinburgh than the one currently on offer by Forth Ports. But why not have a look yourself..

Greener Leith said:

Dear all,

Forth Energy have revised their site plan. You can see blog post about it here:

http://www.greenerleith.org/greener-leith-news/2010/3/12/biomass-pl...

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